watercolor painting

Please use this part to report bugs & errors, ask questions & "How to..."
User avatar
moorsel
Posts: 9
Joined: 06 May 2008, 20:23
Location: Delft, the Netherlands
Contact:

watercolor painting

Post by moorsel » 13 Jul 2008, 08:48

I would like to use TVpaint to create something in the style that is shown in this photoshop tutorial.

http://danidraws.com/2006/12/27/create- ... photoshop/

How could I achieve more or less the same results with TVpaint.

Frank

User avatar
ingie01
Posts: 88
Joined: 19 Sep 2007, 16:51
Contact:

Re: watercolor painting

Post by ingie01 » 13 Jul 2008, 10:33

Hello Frank
I'm a newbe and it seems possible considering the tools avaliable and the ones you can make. Of course water color will always remain an elusive emulation.
I also think if you experiment and play. I have no set process I'm still learning to draw!

User avatar
Paul Fierlinger
Posts: 7691
Joined: 03 May 2008, 12:05
Location: Pennsylvania USA
Contact:

Re: watercolor painting

Post by Paul Fierlinger » 13 Jul 2008, 10:58

You can do that in TVPaint as well, or better, depending on your painting skills. Look at the stills on this website:
http://www.mydogtulipfilm.com
Some are flatter than others, but if you look closely at some areas you will see that my wife, who does all the painting on our films, has achieved a pretty sufficient skill in creating what is called watercolor effects.

She could go further than what you see there (and has, in her own non-film still work) but at the beginning of this production we had both decided that we will not set ourselves out to emulate real-world textures and effects but rather search for a look that flows naturally out of this new, hand drawn/painted digital realm, yet looks pleasing and has a look as hand made as it truthfully is. Watercolor artists never set themselves out to make their paintings look like oil paintings, and we felt the same way about the digital world; I stopped searching for the closest to real pencil look and Sandra has developed her painting style from a work flow that is natural to our new, digital work environment.

She paints with the use of many layers and also makes great use of the layer's sliders. Her brushes (and she works mostly just with the pen/brush tool) take great advantage of TVP's transparency options. I would say that working with transparencies is her entire bag of tricks -- besides the skills she has acquired over her 15 years of digital painting, working for many hours every single day.

So if you are looking for a special filter or one-stop special watercolor effects tool, I don't believe you will find it anywhere. Even the most successful attempts of some programmers of watercolor specialty software which have come awfully close to emulating the characteristics of water seeping into paper, still have the look of not quite being the real thing, which frankly irritates me.

I will see if I can succeed in uploading here a couple of Sandra's earlier attempts of emulating watercolor paintings of a flower.
Attachments
Rose -02a.jpg
Paul
http://www.slocumfilm.com
Desktop PC Win10-Pro -64 bit OS; 32.0 GB RAM
Processor: i7-2600 CPU@3.40GHz
AMD FirePro V7900; Intuos4 Wacom tablet

User avatar
Paul Fierlinger
Posts: 7691
Joined: 03 May 2008, 12:05
Location: Pennsylvania USA
Contact:

Re: watercolor painting

Post by Paul Fierlinger » 13 Jul 2008, 11:12

A few more; with these she began her search for whatever will come out of the software environment the most pleasing to her. She painted these a few years ago, using the pre-Mirage TVP software.
Attachments
Ro-4 amarylis.jpg
Rose-4 in glass.jpg
Rose-3 Mhyre.jpg
Rose-3 Mhyre.jpg (89 KiB) Viewed 8756 times
Paul
http://www.slocumfilm.com
Desktop PC Win10-Pro -64 bit OS; 32.0 GB RAM
Processor: i7-2600 CPU@3.40GHz
AMD FirePro V7900; Intuos4 Wacom tablet

User avatar
moorsel
Posts: 9
Joined: 06 May 2008, 20:23
Location: Delft, the Netherlands
Contact:

Re: watercolor painting

Post by moorsel » 13 Jul 2008, 12:17

Hi all,

Thanx for the answers and the examples. What would be the best way to start, where can I find info or a tutorial on this topic? Should I start creating my own brushes? Should I start whith the default brush set and if so how should I use them the achieve the results?

Gr,
Frank

User avatar
Paul Fierlinger
Posts: 7691
Joined: 03 May 2008, 12:05
Location: Pennsylvania USA
Contact:

Re: watercolor painting

Post by Paul Fierlinger » 13 Jul 2008, 13:00

First, what is your painting background in general? Art school? Self taught?
If art school, you apply the same principals that you have been taught in your art classes; you lay down a base of color tone on your bottom layer and build the other layers from there upward -- just as you would with watercolors on paper.

If you are self-taught, you should start with good books on the subject. If that is what you need, then speak up and you will get some good recommendations from others on these forums.

Secondly, what is your product release target? Is it print, film, web? You need to know this to make a decision about the size of your painting (rule of thumb: bigger is better but too big can be a killer too.)

But I suggest foremost that you acquaint yourself with the software and you should do that best by reading the entire manual first, then just by fooling around with the tools that impressed you the most while you were reading, and lastly, you ask any questions you feel like on these forums.
Paul
http://www.slocumfilm.com
Desktop PC Win10-Pro -64 bit OS; 32.0 GB RAM
Processor: i7-2600 CPU@3.40GHz
AMD FirePro V7900; Intuos4 Wacom tablet

User avatar
ZigOtto
Posts: 4103
Joined: 17 Feb 2006, 22:50
Location: south-Petazonia

Re: watercolor painting

Post by ZigOtto » 13 Jul 2008, 13:09

moorsel wrote:... How could I achieve more or less the same results with TVpaint.
I can't see in this (speed) video anything we can't do in tvpaint. :)
http://danidraws.com/media/dani_watercolorpumpkins.mov

Basically here's a tvpaint more or less equivalent process :
1- load your black&white outline drawing (of course, you can draw it directly in tvpaint as well),
2- add a layer, paint roughly the pumpkins area, then set this layer as Stencil and hide it,
3- add a layer, (the 1rst color layer), set it in Multiply mode,
4- set your custom-brush as you want (connections, wet profile*, set your choosen paper ON, ...),
5- choose your color in the palette panel (Lemec's PPalette plugin is a must-have in this domain),
and paint the background.
6- disable the Stencil, repeat 3-4-5 and paint the pumpkins, on one or several layers
(paint mode = Alpha-Diff, brush mode = Alpha Stamp),
7- repeat 6, but set the layer in Screen mode, (or Light mode), to paint the high-light,
8- tweak the layers opacity, make the final touches, sign it at the bottom, and export.
:wink:

ps: the new Layer blending modes (since v.9) have merely close the gap between tvpaint
and adobe's PShop or other wellknown painter apps. 8)

ps2: * it's amazing how we can get many different stroke result from a single and same custombrush
just by playing with the new Wet Profile setting ! (see pict.) :wink:

ps3: each time I see her painting works, old or new, Dogsma is killing me !!! :D
Attachments
wetprofile.png
Last edited by ZigOtto on 13 Jul 2008, 18:52, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
moorsel
Posts: 9
Joined: 06 May 2008, 20:23
Location: Delft, the Netherlands
Contact:

Re: watercolor painting

Post by moorsel » 13 Jul 2008, 13:30

I don't have an art background and create animations as a hobby. I'd like to create some watorcolorish background for a new "project" and looking for any info on how to achieve this.

Gr,
Frank

User avatar
moorsel
Posts: 9
Joined: 06 May 2008, 20:23
Location: Delft, the Netherlands
Contact:

Re: watercolor painting

Post by moorsel » 13 Jul 2008, 13:46

2- add a layer, paint roughly the pumpkins area, then set this layer as Stencil and hide it,
What kind of brush with which setting to use best for this?

Gr,
Frank

User avatar
Paul Fierlinger
Posts: 7691
Joined: 03 May 2008, 12:05
Location: Pennsylvania USA
Contact:

Re: watercolor painting

Post by Paul Fierlinger » 13 Jul 2008, 13:49

moorsel wrote:I I'd like to create some watorcolorish background for a new "project" and looking for any info on how to achieve this.
Take a hint from your own words then. Backgrounds are just that; they are something that appears in the back of what happens upfront.

I would start by applying a few dabs of color to imply a ground and the air above it (as in: the floor and the distant wall, or the lawn and the distant sky.)

You are on the right track to start with the background and then to develop your characters so that they show weight and where they stand in perspective. But by all means, don't give the background rendering too much importance -- yet. I would sketch out whatever objects I need to see, such as a table, a door in the back, but only with very light, thin lines and only those objects that play a crucial role in the action that is to come.

If you overdo the background before you have animated the scene you are putting the cart before the horse. All the Disney followers will disagree with what I just wrote, but I stick by my words. This just goes to show you how difficult it is to dispense with advice.

My second cry is this: By all means don't imitate anything you have seen on the screen! Paint and draw how you feel about your story. Imitating professionals is the worst thing you can do to your learning curve -- it gets you stuck in a rut before you even start.
Paul
http://www.slocumfilm.com
Desktop PC Win10-Pro -64 bit OS; 32.0 GB RAM
Processor: i7-2600 CPU@3.40GHz
AMD FirePro V7900; Intuos4 Wacom tablet

User avatar
Sierra Rose
Posts: 477
Joined: 04 May 2008, 17:14
Location: Windsor, California
Contact:

Re: watercolor painting

Post by Sierra Rose » 13 Jul 2008, 14:29

I am also self-taught and was wondering about painting a few years ago and Paul and Sandra posted some very useful info on another forum that is no longer on the web. The main things I remember are a book which I bought and love. It is called MAKING COLOR SING, by Jeanne Dobie. It is about watercoloring on paper. The writer shows how she makes layers of paint in what she calls "glazes". Sandra said she does the same with our TVPaint layers and varies the opacity.

So for instance: A scene of a boat in the water with a whole layer of a greyed blue, and another layer of yellow, both of these layers have reduced opacity so they "blend" and really give you the feeling of mist. I played around with the opacity settings on both layers until I got what I wanted. I spent a week with this book trying out the ideas Sandra was suggesting and really got some amazing atmospheres.

Sandra also shared how she will paint shadows in black on their own layer and then vary the opacity to get the exact depth of shadow she needs. I do this now too and find it wonderful. Hope this helps.
WinXP 32bit 10.0.17Pro

User avatar
Paul Fierlinger
Posts: 7691
Joined: 03 May 2008, 12:05
Location: Pennsylvania USA
Contact:

Re: watercolor painting

Post by Paul Fierlinger » 13 Jul 2008, 14:49

Sierra K Rose wrote: Sandra also shared how she will paint shadows in black on their own layer and then vary the opacity to get the exact depth of shadow she needs. I do this now too and find it wonderful. Hope this helps.
I don't remember the thread too well but I'd be surprised if she had said "black", and if she did, I'm sure she said so just to get done with the typing as fast as she could (since she is very forum shy). Anyway, Sandra seldom uses 100% black but adds a bit of blue or green to her blacks; sometimes even red -- all those colors very sparingly of course, but her shadows usually have a tint of another color and are not pure black.

But I'm not sure that this is what moorsel wants to hear. I think ZigOtto is more on target with m's quest; to find the cookbook recipe of how to bake a cake.
Paul
http://www.slocumfilm.com
Desktop PC Win10-Pro -64 bit OS; 32.0 GB RAM
Processor: i7-2600 CPU@3.40GHz
AMD FirePro V7900; Intuos4 Wacom tablet

User avatar
Sierra Rose
Posts: 477
Joined: 04 May 2008, 17:14
Location: Windsor, California
Contact:

Re: watercolor painting

Post by Sierra Rose » 13 Jul 2008, 14:52

I still mourn the loss of all our posts on that forum. So much vital and helpful information gone. Forum-shy as she may be, I still learned a lot from Sandra's posts.
WinXP 32bit 10.0.17Pro

User avatar
ZigOtto
Posts: 4103
Joined: 17 Feb 2006, 22:50
Location: south-Petazonia

Re: watercolor painting

Post by ZigOtto » 13 Jul 2008, 17:36

moorsel wrote:... What kind of brush with which setting to use best for this?
don't be afraid to experiment, and see by yourself what's working the best for you .
I'm often embarrased when it goes to teach to anyone how to do this or that,
because I have not one but a bunch of different ways to bring forward,
and I don't know which one of these will suit to anybody else needs,
too many cases with too many goals for too many users having too many different backgrounds and habits ... :)
But I'm not eluding your question : to "paint" the mask (or Stencil), I would take a soft-edge brush,
something like a penbrush but with soft edge, the airbrush tool (with a profile set like in the attached pict.)
would do perfectly the job imo.
Use a bigger one to make roughly the big inner part, and a smaller size one (with Paper toggle ON) to detail the contour.
F2 shortkey to paint, F4 to erase.

Tip : if you think you will re-use later a custom-made drawing tool, don't forget to store it in a custom panel,
(see 2-18 Custom Panel chapter of the pdf manual).
Attachments
airbrush.png
airbrush.png (15.22 KiB) Viewed 8675 times
Last edited by ZigOtto on 13 Jul 2008, 19:10, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
ZigOtto
Posts: 4103
Joined: 17 Feb 2006, 22:50
Location: south-Petazonia

Re: watercolor painting

Post by ZigOtto » 13 Jul 2008, 17:39

Paul Fierlinger wrote:... But I'm not sure that this is what moorsel wants to hear ...
every user's experience is interesting to be heard. :)
btw, is your half "shy Sandra" registred here as a forum member ?
if she isn't already, tell her I hopefully welcome her coming in advance !
(I would like to see a book "how I paint" from her, with her own broad words ...) :wink:

Post Reply