Using the CTG layer for colouring

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David_Fine
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Using the CTG layer for colouring

Post by David_Fine » 14 Sep 2015, 21:16

Just playing with this for the first time and it is very interesting, but there are a couple of things I just can't figure out. Is there any setting for the gap sensitivity so that you can choose whether it bleeds through a gap or not? I am finding that the paint is filling into an area I don't want it to because it has a gap. I want that space to be a different colour, but the paint in the bigger area leaks into it. If I try to paint the small area, it leaks into the big area, so I can't make that small area a different colour. The only way I can do that is by making a new layer and painting it by hand, but that can't be the way to do it. How do I use the CTG layer to manually apply a colour which the automatic feature is not doing correctly?

Also, after applying a colour, is there a way to adjust it in situ, so that you can see the colour changing on the character as you tweak it?
David Fine
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Paul Fierlinger
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Re: Using the CTG layer for colouring

Post by Paul Fierlinger » 14 Sep 2015, 21:29

David, when you open the CTG layer notice a new panel pops up:
Tool: Speedfill
which shows an Exclusion box to check. As you fill the color you want, ignore the false areas it leaks into here and there. Then go back and fill those areas with the exclusion tool checked. Exclusion is just another word for erase, a word that would be actually inappropriate to use because it does not erase anything. You should find this secondary operation less trouble to use than it sounds when written in text by me. :)
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David_Fine
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Re: Using the CTG layer for colouring

Post by David_Fine » 14 Sep 2015, 21:51

Hi Paul. I tried the Exclusion option, but it does not work as it then excludes too much, so I have to then repaint what it has exlcuded, but it also fills in the space again and I'm back where I started. I am attaching an image. The arrow points to the circle which I would like to paint white. The circle at the end of the rings on the pad of paper. The easy thing would be to change to a manual brush and paint that area in, but I can't see how to do that on a CTG layer.
Attachments
screenshot_737.jpg
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David Fine
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Paul Fierlinger
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Re: Using the CTG layer for colouring

Post by Paul Fierlinger » 14 Sep 2015, 22:07

The CTG is meant to be used as a speed fill tool. What you show here needs to be done with a drawing or painting tool. For that you need to flatten the CTG layer back into an anim layer by pressing the letter A on your keyboard (Layer: Make Anim) after you have finished with fill (or before you start filling).. BTW, CTG layers take up a huge amount of memory so they should always be flattened after having done their work.
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David_Fine
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Re: Using the CTG layer for colouring

Post by David_Fine » 14 Sep 2015, 22:25

Right. That's exactly what I was looking for. Didn't know I had to flatten it to do that. Where is this vital info to be found, but not for you, Paul? I can't see anything about it on the online manual.
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Re: Using the CTG layer for colouring

Post by Paul Fierlinger » 14 Sep 2015, 22:47

:D That's a question other people can answer better than I. I learned this much earlier from working with the plugin but don't remember if it was in the pulgin's manual or if I had learned it from speaking directly with D. Sykora, the plugin's developer.
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David_Fine
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Re: Using the CTG layer for colouring

Post by David_Fine » 15 Sep 2015, 23:55

Well, as discussed elsewhere, there seems to be a rather significant disconnect between what TVPaint does and how well it is explained online, since so many vital tips and tricks are only discovered here.

I have another question regarding using CTG layers. I am surprised that there is no setting to determine the size of a gap to ignore, or am I overlooking it? I have found that painting an area with small areas is often a case of multiple attempts, excluding an area, filling again, refilling... until it is painted the way I want. I am not clear on how I can adjust the fill property if the paint is leaking out of a small gap in the line which I want. I should be able to set a threshold for gaps, but I can't see one, so how do I avoid all this extra work trying to get the areas filled in correctly?
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Re: Using the CTG layer for colouring

Post by Paul Fierlinger » 16 Sep 2015, 01:36

David, the CTG does not work like the fill bucket. It is designed around a unique and ingenious algorithm few could understand (including myself of course :oops: ) Instead of thinking about gap sizes try playing with the thickness of of line you use for scribbling and the shape of the scribble. You should discover that you can go way outside of the mass of your character and nothing will spill outside and much inside will fill up just right. Try even making a swooping circle in the rough area of your character and you might be surprised with the result. I find most effective to make a set of waves like drawing a snake with a pretty fat line the most effective. Sometimes all you need is a quick jab, like almost making a check mark will work well. In general, bold, quick strokes seem to be the rule.
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CartoonMonkey
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Re: Using the CTG layer for colouring

Post by CartoonMonkey » 20 Sep 2015, 02:10

Hi David,

Do you do google hangouts? I would be happy to broadcast me using CTG layer, and explain to you a bit about it sometime. It's easy and tremendous once you get the hang of it.

C

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aldehyde
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Re: Using the CTG layer for colouring

Post by aldehyde » 23 Sep 2015, 23:04

Hi everyone
I'm also dealing with this and and this is what I did.

In this extreme example:
Image

If I just want the little spore-like part to be colored, or say, to be filled with different colors without touching the black outline,
Image

This is what happens usually:
Image

So I create a new anim layer here called "color adj"
and make sure both the outline and this layer are listed as CTG's sources.
Image

Then use the filled color to makes some edges in this "color adj":
Image

And there you have it.
Image

Hope this helps.
Might not be the smartest way tho.

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Peter Wassink
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Re: Using the CTG layer for colouring

Post by Peter Wassink » 24 Sep 2015, 11:52

thats a good solution.
but this does make it much harder to do color adjustments afterwards.
one of the benefits of using the color & texturelayer

i'd like to request an extra tool in the color & texturelayer panel
see image:
ctg.png
ctg.png (35.42 KiB) Viewed 4009 times
where a close gap tool is added to the Speedfill toolpanel and you just put thin UI lines to closeoff leaks.
The lines (like the squiggles) will not be visible in render or when the C&F layer is off or inactive

# edit
i'll put it in Feature requests
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Re: Using the CTG layer for colouring

Post by Elodie » 25 Sep 2015, 13:12

You can also close the lines with CTG directly :
3wgozKq___.png
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David_Fine
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Re: Using the CTG layer for colouring

Post by David_Fine » 25 Sep 2015, 20:47

I'm still unclear on how I am meant to tell the CTG layer to treat an opening as an area to spill into or not. I would expect an adjuster to choose the gap size, but there isn't one. Elodie's example sounds good, but not exactly clear how to do that and I can't find any info online about this. I don't see anything in the online manual that explains these details about filling accurately.

Cartoon Monkey, I don't know about Google Hangouts, but I could find out. Would very much appreciate your demo on how to do this. Thanks.
David Fine
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David_Fine
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Re: Using the CTG layer for colouring

Post by David_Fine » 25 Sep 2015, 23:06

Peter Wassink wrote: i'd like to request an extra tool in the color & texturelayer panel where a close gap tool is added to the Speedfill toolpanel and you just put thin UI lines to closeoff leaks.
The lines (like the squiggles) will not be visible in render or when the C&F layer is off or inactive
In fact, this is exactly how you do it in Harmony. You just paint invisible lines to define the areas, as needed.
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Fabrice
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Re: Using the CTG layer for colouring

Post by Fabrice » 26 Sep 2015, 14:11

Some explanations about the way to use scribbles are here : http://lazy-brush.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Fabrice Debarge, Product Manager, TVPaint Team

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