Link sound to clip

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NathanOtano
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Link sound to clip

Post by NathanOtano » 26 Nov 2016, 15:22

Hey
While storyboarding I want to put my temp soundtrack on my board in TVPaint. More often I need to have it in my project view and not in my clip because my sound lasts from one clip to another, like dialogue or else. Unfortunately TVPaint is not really handy for that, that's why we usually edit in another software (and that's a shame because TVPaint is really great while for doing animatic, as long as sound is not involved).

The only thing I'd need to be to manage sound while storyboarding is kind of a "link to cilp" option. For exemple I right clic for the option on the soundtrack, and regarding current frame the sound will stick to current frame of my current clip if it moves in the global project timeline.

Even if I have some way to compensate a clip with the other one to avoid having to move sound again, sometimes I really need to change my timing and it means that all my sound will now desynchronise. In traditional editing programs of course the sound follows the editing when timing changes.

I'd also need to select multiple tracks to move them at the same time.
Storyboard, animation and design work : http://nathanotano.tumblr.com/
As I'm highly interested in animation workflows, I'm open to scripting new TVP functions for individuals and studios. Please don't hesitate to contact me!

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Elodie
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Re: Link sound to clip

Post by Elodie » 28 Nov 2016, 06:22

You can split the global sound (from project tab) into clips, so whatever the changes brought to the clips' duration, you won't affect the sound.
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Re: Link sound to clip

Post by NathanOtano » 28 Nov 2016, 09:12

More often I need to have it in my project view and not in my clip because my sound lasts from one clip to another.
With this solution my dialogue can't be synced from one shot to another, it will be cut if the middle if I edit my shots.

As I'll be storyboarding a lot till the end of the year, I spent some hours this weekend to script something so sound offsets when using tools related to editing (will share it soon when ready). But please think about it for next updates/versions (I guess it's already planned, I posted just in case), it's a fundamental feature that makes people use storyboard pro instead of TVP for storyboarding if you need to do animatics with sound, or they switch to editing tools for timing (which is a shame because TVP is so good for drawing and timing).
Storyboard, animation and design work : http://nathanotano.tumblr.com/
As I'm highly interested in animation workflows, I'm open to scripting new TVP functions for individuals and studios. Please don't hesitate to contact me!

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Elodie
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Re: Link sound to clip

Post by Elodie » 28 Nov 2016, 10:12

Could you actually record a video and show me your workflow in Storyboard Pro ?
More often I need to have it in my project view and not in my clip because my sound lasts from one clip to another.
Tu peux me la faire en français ? Je ne comprends pas ce que tu veux dire :oops: :oops: :oops:
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Re: Link sound to clip

Post by NathanOtano » 28 Nov 2016, 12:39

Le plus souvent j'ai besoin d'avoir le son au niveau de mon projet et pas des clips car mes sons durent d'un clip à l'autre.
Donc même si je les intègre dans les clips, si le timing de l'un à l'autre change le son va se décaler et il va falloir que je le replace à la main. Tandis que dans le projet le son va toujours se jouer en entier, il s'agit de savoir ce qu'il suit quand le montage change.

J'aurais tendance à dire qu'on synchronise quasi exclusivement nos sons avec une image précise (image du coup de marteau sur l'enclume avec son de la frappe, ou pas du perso pendant marche, ou quand la musique commence), donc il suffirait de lier une tête d'instance à un point du layer de son pour ne plus avoir de problème. Habituellement en montage le son est lié aux plans, et quand on décale quelque chose tous les sons après l'endroit modifié se décalent en conséquence, ce qui permet de garder la sychro son/image, ce qui serait pour moi le comportement par défaut si rien n'est lié.
Storyboard, animation and design work : http://nathanotano.tumblr.com/
As I'm highly interested in animation workflows, I'm open to scripting new TVP functions for individuals and studios. Please don't hesitate to contact me!

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Elodie
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Re: Link sound to clip

Post by Elodie » 28 Nov 2016, 13:39

Hmm... Ce n'est pas beaucoup plus clair en fait, je suis désolée :cry:
En fait, ta demande est très abstraite pour moi : je n'arrive pas à conceptualiser la problématique et donc il m'est impossible d'esquisser une solution. Essaie de m'enregistrer une petite vidéo qui me montre ta façon de travailler : une image vaut parfois mieux qu'un long discours.
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NathanOtano
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Re: Link sound to clip

Post by NathanOtano » 28 Nov 2016, 14:28

I have this storyboard
Image

I change the out point of my first clip, sound doesn't follow :(
Image

I want this, so sound is still synced to when my guy starts talking
Image

If I put sound in the clips like this... :
Image

And want to change the timing of anything, dialogue doesn't follow :
Image

Better?
Storyboard, animation and design work : http://nathanotano.tumblr.com/
As I'm highly interested in animation workflows, I'm open to scripting new TVP functions for individuals and studios. Please don't hesitate to contact me!

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Elodie
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Re: Link sound to clip

Post by Elodie » 28 Nov 2016, 14:46

Better, but :

• why would you change the timing of the clip if you want to sync a dialog ? I mean, if the sound lasts 2 secs, that makes no sense to lower the duration of the clip.
• why do you split in several clips things that could be done in the same : your two last clips belong to the same "shot". I know that historically, storyboard artist had to draw several moments for the same shot, but is it still necessary to do so in TVPaint, since later or sooner, your storyboard will be an animation ?
• if you work with a single soundtrack, it's not necessary to split the track in clips.
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Re: Link sound to clip

Post by NathanOtano » 28 Nov 2016, 16:04

• why do you split in several clips things that could be done in the same : your two last clips belong to the same "shot". I know that historically, storyboard artist had to draw several moments for the same shot, but is it still necessary to do so in TVPaint, since later or sooner, your storyboard will be an animation ?
I just splitted thos so you can see the mouse animation in my images but I would always draw them in the same shot (except for splitting camera movement maybe). Wasn't the best Idea I got today I guess.
• why would you change the timing of the clip if you want to sync a dialog ? I mean, if the sound lasts 2 secs, that makes no sense to lower the duration of the clip.
Because the only shot where there is actually a mouth is shot 2+3, beforeward and afterward I can change my editing without problems cause there is no mouth, and I'll need to adapte the timing because of the sound I hear that creates a new sense of time compared to a muted version. + There is much more sound layers than this only one, just imagine any sound that continues through different clips like music for exemple, an why not launching it on an accent on animation.
• if you work with a single soundtrack, it's not necessary to split the track in clips.
Of course that was an exemple and I tried to keep it simple. I'd need to put music, SFX, dialogues and everything else.
Storyboard, animation and design work : http://nathanotano.tumblr.com/
As I'm highly interested in animation workflows, I'm open to scripting new TVP functions for individuals and studios. Please don't hesitate to contact me!

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Elodie
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Re: Link sound to clip

Post by Elodie » 28 Nov 2016, 16:37

I know you tried to make it simple and you did it with good will, but that's not your role. Your role is to complain ( :wink: ) precisely with details and complexity. That way, we can understand your workflow and improve TVPaint. :D
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NathanOtano
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Re: Link sound to clip

Post by NathanOtano » 28 Nov 2016, 18:25

Yep, sorry about that.

So now do you see what I mean by having sound following your editing and how it's not possible in the current version? It's a common feature in ToonBoom or Premiere that is used really often. I understand your questions but they are more about my exemple precisely and less about the features I miss.
If it's not clear I can give you other, more complex, exemples.
Storyboard, animation and design work : http://nathanotano.tumblr.com/
As I'm highly interested in animation workflows, I'm open to scripting new TVP functions for individuals and studios. Please don't hesitate to contact me!

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Elodie
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Re: Link sound to clip

Post by Elodie » 29 Nov 2016, 06:04

Yes please : more complex examples :)
As I said, don't hesitate to take the time to record a video (there is no hurry, it can be sent next week or even next month). Record it in French if you feel more comfortable and if there are some private content, send it to Fabrice or me directly :)
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Re: Link sound to clip

Post by Elodie » 20 Jun 2017, 07:05

Just a little message to thank you Nathan for coming at TVPaint booth during the MIFA to let me record a video of your request / issue. It's much, much clearer now and I shall talk about this with the dev crew :)
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NathanOtano
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Re: Link sound to clip

Post by NathanOtano » 20 Jun 2017, 07:27

Nice ! Thanks : )
Storyboard, animation and design work : http://nathanotano.tumblr.com/
As I'm highly interested in animation workflows, I'm open to scripting new TVP functions for individuals and studios. Please don't hesitate to contact me!

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