Any Word on CB Paint 2 for Bogart SE

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Dieter
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Re: Any Word on CB Paint 2 for Bogart SE

Post by Dieter » 15 Dec 2011, 22:05

Hi Alan,

I think, the Quicktime format (.mov) is not usable for the Cassi, at least I had no success with it.
Relating to ffdshow I hardly remember which settings I had choosen. But as it is a collection of different codecs, I believe you can activate different codecs for the different formats at the same time. In my configuration of ffdshow for most of the formats "libavcodec" was activated. The applications using these codecs, select automatically that one that fits to the footage. For my videos MPEG 2 was the important one (with the libavcodec).
If you get blocky pictures, perhaps the data rate isn't high enough. You can set it in the tvp export panel with the "configure"-button (near the format choice).
Unfortunately I can no longer use these codecs in the tvp 10 upgrade. My first tests with this upgrade had been promising.
But now, as I tried some longer files (about 4 sec) I have big problems. TVP goes very slow with them (perhaps a RAM problem) and the results are no more accepted by the Cassi. I am still trying to find a workaround, at the end I will have to go your way with Vegas?

Dieter
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Alan
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Re: Any Word on CB Paint 2 for Bogart SE

Post by Alan » 16 Dec 2011, 13:04

Hi Dieter,

I am now able to transfer easily between Cassi and TVPaint. Fabrice pointed out to me that Quicktime Pro needed to be installed on my computer. This is a purchasable item from the Apple on line shop, it cost me £20. It now works like this:

Export via 'Opt' function in edit screen to USB stick.

This now imports to TVP via the usual New/Import footage command.

Export from TVP via:
Quicktime RGBA pre multi.
Config H.264
25 fps
Key frame every ? Must not be ticked. It will not save if you leave it ticked.
Leave Limit date rate unticked.
Chose quality, I went for highest.

This imports to Cassi via the USB icon in the record screen.
It seems to need Gamma set to -5 to restore the scene to its original appearance. I did not have to do this when I went via Vegas Video.

There is no need to go through Media Manager. I suspect that Quicktime may not work on scenes less than 2sec long. The scene I have experimented on is 15sec long. My files are HD.

I guess that Media Manager is similar to ffdshow and somehow attached to Bogart.


Best regards Alan.

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slowtiger
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Re: Any Word on CB Paint 2 for Bogart SE

Post by slowtiger » 16 Dec 2011, 14:38

On Mac, Quicktime files of just some frames (less than 1 second) are no problem at all, so I assume this should work the same on PC.
TVP 10.0.18, Mac Pro Quadcore 3 GHz, 16 GB RAM, OS 10.11, QT 7.7.3

Alan
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Location: United Kingdom

Re: Any Word on CB Paint 2 for Bogart SE

Post by Alan » 16 Dec 2011, 20:39

Thanks Slowtiger,

I picked up the possible 2sec problem from a brows on the search for Quicktime.

Alan

Dieter
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Re: Any Word on CB Paint 2 for Bogart SE

Post by Dieter » 17 Dec 2011, 20:48

Hi Alan,

your posting from Fri Dec 16 was very interesting to me.
The file transfer from Bogart through the OPT button ("export current scene") to TVPaint is really an easy way and works very well with TVPaint 10 too. From now on I'll use this method.
I also tried Quicktime Pro for the transfer in the opposite direction, but with moderate success.
When I use the format H.264 with the settings you suggested, TVPaint saves only 1 frame, not the complete file.
I cannot find out what I'm doing wrong.
When I use the MPEG-4 Video instead (with all other settings unchanged) the saving is o.k. But the picture quality is unsatisfactory. I don't know the correct technical terms to discribe this effect. It is simply that colour gradients (or perhaps luminiscense gradients) ar not as smooth as wanted, but the colour / luminiscense gradients appear in steps. Also here I found no settings to avoid this.
When I export my files as AVI 1920 x 1080 p, the results are much better. Unfortunately Caablanca refuses to accept his format. I have to render it with Vegas Movie Studio to .m2t.
For me this complicated detour pays in better quality, and so I will use this method as long as there is nothing better.
However, there is also a little disadvantage: On the way from tvpaint to Vegas some frames of my file from the beginning or from the end go lost! :(

BTW: my original footage is HDV 1440 i

Best regards
Dieter

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Paul Fierlinger
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Re: Any Word on CB Paint 2 for Bogart SE

Post by Paul Fierlinger » 17 Dec 2011, 21:02

On the way from tvpaint to Vegas some frames of my file from the beginning or from the end go lost! :(
I think I remember reading somewhere in one of the Vegas forums about this quirky thing. If I am correct, this may be a Vegas issue; which version of Vegas are you on?
Paul
http://www.slocumfilm.com
Desktop PC Win10-Pro -64 bit OS; 32.0 GB RAM
Processor: i7-2600 CPU@3.40GHz
AMD FirePro V7900; Intuos4 Wacom tablet

Alan
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Re: Any Word on CB Paint 2 for Bogart SE

Post by Alan » 17 Dec 2011, 21:28

Hi Dieter,

In the export setting procedure have you forgotten to click animation, it might still be set to export a single frame?

Alan

Dieter
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Re: Any Word on CB Paint 2 for Bogart SE

Post by Dieter » 18 Dec 2011, 20:47

@ Paul
I am not using the full version of Vegas, only Vegas Movie Studio HD v.10.0 and I know that there is a newer version 11.x.
But I don't use it very much as I do my video editing with Casablanca. I only need it now and then, when I have to improve the video quality of a file with the Main Concept Codec, which is very good. So I had up to now no need to buy another editing software. Maybe, with my exchange problems from TVPaint 10 to Casablanca I will need it more often.
The loss of some frames is not such a big fault for me. In future I will add some more frames to my file to be always on the save side.

@ Alan
Unfortunately your guess is not right. My export settings were correctly checked. I think there must be a bug in the TVP 10 software. If I tick "single frame" or "animation", that doesn't make any difference, at least when using the H.264 format.
Always only one frame is saved!

Thank you very much for your help
Dieter

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slowtiger
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Re: Any Word on CB Paint 2 for Bogart SE

Post by slowtiger » 18 Dec 2011, 21:31

Export in H.264 should work if you uncheck the option "keyframe every n frames". This is a codec-specific issue with several animation programs.
TVP 10.0.18, Mac Pro Quadcore 3 GHz, 16 GB RAM, OS 10.11, QT 7.7.3

Dieter
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Re: Any Word on CB Paint 2 for Bogart SE

Post by Dieter » 18 Dec 2011, 23:25

slowtiger wrote:Export in H.264 should work if you uncheck the option "keyframe every n frames". This is a codec-specific issue with several animation programs.
Bingo! Hi Slowtiger! Yours was the right tip. Thank you very much!
Alan had already mentioned it, but I didn't understand it.
However, the resulting image is rather pale, as Alan already reported. I have to correct it in Casablanca by reducing the Gamma by about -7 to -8 points for getting the original colour impression.
Also the colour gradients are not completely free of steps. I think this is due to the contents of my example file, where I had applied Fx rendering effects like lighting and volumetric light.
I will do further tests with normal video contents.

Nochmals besten Dank für den entscheidenden Hinweis!
Dieter

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Fabrice
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Re: Any Word on CB Paint 2 for Bogart SE

Post by Fabrice » 19 Dec 2011, 08:57

However, the resulting image is rather pale
This is a well known Quicktime issue. It change the gamma of the original animation. :?
Fabrice Debarge, Product Manager, TVPaint Team

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slowtiger
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Re: Any Word on CB Paint 2 for Bogart SE

Post by slowtiger » 19 Dec 2011, 11:06

If you are forced to use a compressed output, try MPEG-4 Video instead. I found it to have richer colours than h.264.
TVP 10.0.18, Mac Pro Quadcore 3 GHz, 16 GB RAM, OS 10.11, QT 7.7.3

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