Coloring on seperate layers

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Anim8tor Cathy
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Coloring on seperate layers

Post by Anim8tor Cathy » 25 May 2008, 13:39

Hello Gang,

Quick question: I understand how layers work from my experience with Photoshop and After Effects but what I don't understand is why one would choose to put their color and shadows on a separate layer from the outline of their drawings. Is this for better control or effect? I know that Sandra Fierlinger uses layers of color to simulate water color transparencies, so that would make sense. But in a situation where one is just filling in straight color, what is the purpose of putting in on a separate layer?

Thanks for enlightening me,
Cathy

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slowtiger
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Re: Coloring on seperate layers

Post by slowtiger » 25 May 2008, 13:57

My way of colouring usually goes like this:
1. Create animation line drawing.
2. Duplicate that line drawing layer
3. Colour the bottom line layer with solid colours (note to self: don't forget to switch off paper!)
At this point I save the file under a different name. Why? Because here I have the lines and the fills separately, with flat colours only in case I need to change them later. Workflow continues like this:
4. Create new layer on top of colour layer
5. Use colour layer as stencil
6. Draw shadows or texture or whatever into new layer
If necessary, I add one step:
7. Use line layer as stencil and colour lines where needed
TVP 10.0.18, Mac Pro Quadcore 3 GHz, 16 GB RAM, OS 10.11, QT 7.7.3

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idragosani
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Re: Coloring on seperate layers

Post by idragosani » 25 May 2008, 15:07

Anim8tor Cathy wrote:Hello Gang,

Quick question: I understand how layers work from my experience with Photoshop and After Effects but what I don't understand is why one would choose to put their color and shadows on a separate layer from the outline of their drawings. Is this for better control or effect? I know that Sandra Fierlinger uses layers of color to simulate water color transparencies, so that would make sense. But in a situation where one is just filling in straight color, what is the purpose of putting in on a separate layer?
It's just more flexible to put color on a separate layer. If you need to redo the colors for whatever reason, you don't want to mess up your line drawings. In traditional cel animation, the colors were usually painted on the back of the acetate cel, and we simulate this in a variety of ways in TVPaint. But coloring on a separate layer, using the line art as the 'guide' for where the colors is a very flexible and safe way to color.
Brett W. McCoy -- http://www.brettwmccoy.com
TVP Pro 10 : Intel i7 2600 3.4 GHz : 8GB RAM : Ubuntu Studio 14.04 : Cintiq 21UX

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Paul Fierlinger
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Re: Coloring on seperate layers

Post by Paul Fierlinger » 25 May 2008, 16:44

My main reason for wanting the color on a separate layer is that too often I need (decide, am told by client, change in sound track, change in scene sequence) to go back and redraw some portion of the action. If the colors are fused to the line drawing I'm stuck and have to redraw entire image sequences instead of just portions of it.
Paul
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Sierra Rose
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Re: Coloring on seperate layers

Post by Sierra Rose » 25 May 2008, 16:52

I learned from Sandra Fierlinger to paint my shadows solid black on a separate layer and play with the opacity controls to get what I want. This way, I can get shadow on shadow too. Also she recommended a book "Making Color Sing" by Dobie about layering water color in what is called "glazing'.

I tried applying the principles of the book at Sandra's suggestion in the software, layering, for example a yellow layer, over a scene and varying the opacity along with a greyed-blue layer, also varying the opacity. I got some astounding results with lots of control to simulate a feeling of mist. Or whatever you are going for.

Far more sophisticated than I am as a painter, but it has opened a useful and magical door for me. (Thanks again, Sandra.)
WinXP 32bit 10.0.17Pro

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Anim8tor Cathy
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Re: Coloring on seperate layers

Post by Anim8tor Cathy » 25 May 2008, 20:01

AH HA!

Now it makes more sense to me! Thank you everyone!

:D

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Mandalaholic
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Re: Coloring on seperate layers

Post by Mandalaholic » 29 May 2008, 13:29

I will often have several different color layers. I use the stack a great deal to make adjustments on different color sets. Sometimes I don't even really fuss over a color until its painted and then experiment with different values etc. in the stack. So I guess I too use several layers for the option of flexibility.
Howdy Yaaaal!

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rawhead
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Re: Coloring on seperate layers

Post by rawhead » 01 Jul 2008, 12:18

Got question about make shadows. I´m using Mirage, and got that Animation toolbar, which have Toonshadow. But i think that´s not best with scanned images (or i just can´t do it :) )

So, i´m thinging could it done any another way. I tried to copy lineart and move it little bit different postition with color layer as stencil, so it´s inside. But can´t find (or is there any? ) proper effect or way to make that line so much thicker so that would used like shadow with little transparency.

Anyone got point? :)
Markus

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Manuel
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Re: Coloring on seperate layers

Post by Manuel » 01 Jul 2008, 12:53

To make shadow, you can try the bevel FX, but it use the transparency too.
Try the inner mode on the object itself, but it is difficult to set.
Try the outer mode on a "mask" of your object. (fill the image with a color and drop a copy of your object layer on it, in erase mode)

To make an outline thicker : Blur/Median blur FX with Light Mark mode.
Manuel

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ZigOtto
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Re: Coloring on seperate layers

Post by ZigOtto » 01 Jul 2008, 13:25

before to give a try and to go further in "how would I do ..." advice,
can you show us a sample of your raw material you want to "shadow" ?

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slowtiger
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Re: Coloring on seperate layers

Post by slowtiger » 01 Jul 2008, 13:42

It is a good idea to first make a sketch of what it looks like and how it should look like in the end.
TVP 10.0.18, Mac Pro Quadcore 3 GHz, 16 GB RAM, OS 10.11, QT 7.7.3

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rawhead
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Re: Coloring on seperate layers

Post by rawhead » 04 Jul 2008, 20:34

Sorry, yes examples help a lot :)

Here´s just simple example, tree.
tree-noshadow.jpg
simple tree, no shadows
tree-noshadow.jpg (4.88 KiB) Viewed 19183 times
And result should be this kind :

This kind object, which is still is easy make shadows just drawing these, and copy image "x"-frames. But how with animated object.
tree-shadow.jpg
Tree with shadow
tree-shadow.jpg (4.89 KiB) Viewed 19181 times
Well, now i made little tests with blurs. Add little bit Center and Cubic blur and that works somehow. Used color-layer as stencil, so it didn´t make blur outside of tree. That Center blur is placed to left and "outside" of tree.
Had to test more with animated object.
tree-blurshadow.jpg
Shadowed with Center and cubic blur.
tree-blurshadow.jpg (4.85 KiB) Viewed 19178 times
Markus

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malcooning
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Re: Coloring on seperate layers

Post by malcooning » 09 Jul 2008, 08:20

the examples show the kind of effect you can exactly get with the Toon Shading FX.
just play around with the parameters. The profile editor makes the whole difference between qualities of shades.

these ones I made to your tree with Toon shading. I think it's quite similar to what you were doing with the offset blur.
(copyright infringement :o )
tree .jpg
tree .jpg (13.15 KiB) Viewed 19072 times
before you apply, duplicate the layer that you want to shade, and select the top layer of the two.
Once you go into the Toon Shading dialogue panel tick the "shadow only" box, and this will draw only the shadow, which (after you hit "Apply") will result in one layer for the drawing, and another layer for the shadow. In this way you can control the opacity of the shadow layer, change its color, apply blur etc.
as well, it's always a good idea to keep your color on separate layer than your outline.

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ZigOtto
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Re: Coloring on seperate layers

Post by ZigOtto » 09 Jul 2008, 18:20

tvpa is like a kitchen with all its equipment, and you are the Chef,
you can cook fast and easy-to-made dishes,
but you can also cook some others much more subtile and savoury
by using a special elaborated recipe and assortment from your own invention,
it's up to you.

here's a quick attempt to "render" your tree exemple, starting from a flat filled (base) tree * :
-1- dupl. the line layer + directional-blur_FX (color layer as stencil) = "LineShad-1"
-2- dupl. color layer + cubic-blur_FX + Alpha-Control + X,Y offset as new (invert)stencil, then Erase "LineShad-1",
-3- add on the Color Layer a little ToonShading-FX (color = black),
-4- idem but inversed direction and color = white ( or "ToonLighting"),
-5- add a Bump_FX, the color Layer itself as source,
-6- lock Alpha and add a smooth Displacement-Mapping_FX (source = Paper) + Posterize_FX (7 colors)
through the Stencil of 2)
-7- Custom Paper ON, erase the stencil layer and merge it in Color mode,
-8- merge all (except the original outline layer), and add a Color-Sliders_FX to enhance the color rendering.

one FXs assortment amongst millions others,
and it could be applied (step by step) on any still or animated layer,
also, keeping the trunk separated from the foliage could be helpful
to apply on it a different stack (angle, value, bump amount, ...),
of course, starting with a more "textured" color layer,
or filled with custom gradients could give better result as well .

the other way consists to paint by hand your light and shadow,
or to animate (via rotospline) the light and shadow areas, (separated layers),
a lot of work, but much more accurate and controllable, specially with intricate shapes.
8)
Attachments
treeShad.png

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rawhead
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Re: Coloring on seperate layers

Post by rawhead » 11 Jul 2008, 22:08

Thank you malcooning and, wau ZigOtto... that was nice result of my simple and clumsy tree :) Thank you usefull tips.
Markus

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