TVPaint 10: first impression

[Joost]

My first impression about tvpaint 10:

-Color Picker: Finally! I waited a long time for this improvement! (although in the hsv modus the cursor moves strange in the lower right area.)
-Moving frames in different layers: Very good improvement.
-Layer groups: Very disappointing. I hoped you could move layers into folders (like photoshop) and maybe move a group of images to a different spot on the screen (and I mean the images itself, not the layers).
-Reset button on the transform tool still sets the anti aliasing to 'medium quality'. I think this is a bug. The reset option should nod affect the AAliasing. I think (or hope) this is very easy to fix for the programmers so please fix this in the next update. Every time I reset the transform tool I have to set AAliasing back to 'none', and if I forget it one time, a lot of frames will be in halve quality...

So this was my first impression(I only used it for 30 minutes).

Joost

[Fabrice]

maybe move a group of images to a different spot on the screen (and I mean the images itself, not the layers).

The FX stack with the Keyframmer effect can be applied to a group (current image or only instances, etc ...)
But I'm not sure to exactly understand what you mean ...

nb : please check also the group options (right click on the corresponding color check-box)

group_options.png (4.06 KiB) Viewed 1601 times

You can select a group and then perform some operations like adjusting the exposures, positions, etc ...

I think this is a bug. The reset option should nod affect the AAliasing. I think (or hope) this is very easy to fix for the programmers so please fix this in the next update. Every time I reset the transform tool I have to set AAliasing back to 'none', and if I forget it one time, a lot of frames will be in halve quality...

ok, we will check.

[D.T. Nethery]

-Reset button on the transform tool still sets the anti aliasing to 'medium quality'.

I think this is a bug. The reset option should not affect the AAliasing.

I think (or hope) this is very easy to fix for the programmers so please fix this in the next update. Every time I reset the transform tool I have to set AAliasing back to 'none', and if I forget it one time, a lot of frames will be in halve quality...

I agree. When reset the transform tool(s) the Anti-Aliasing should not default back to "medium". It should be whatever the user had it set at before the reset. Defaulting to medium is not a good choice.

[Joost]

Hello Fabrice,

This is what I hoped the layer group was going to be like:

[Fabrice]

Hello Fabrice,

This is what I hoped the layer group was going to be like

You can use the keyframer for that purpose. (select its options to apply the transformation to the group in one operation : current group >> all instances >> heads)

group_options.png (24.49 KiB) Viewed 1595 times

[Fabrice]

-Reset button on the transform tool still sets the anti aliasing to 'medium quality'.

I think this is a bug. The reset option should not affect the AAliasing.

I think (or hope) this is very easy to fix for the programmers so please fix this in the next update. Every time I reset the transform tool I have to set AAliasing back to 'none', and if I forget it one time, a lot of frames will be in halve quality...

I agree. When reset the transform tool(s) the Anti-Aliasing should not default back to "medium". It should be whatever the user had it set at before the reset. Defaulting to medium is not a good choice.

It's maybe a bug, I don't remember we made it intentionnally. We will check tomorrow.

[Joost]

Thanks for the information about moving layer groups.
I think I will use this function.
But I still think this is a very complex way for doing something that should be very easy.

I imagined layer groups like in Photoshop, where you can put layers in folders which you can fold open and close to keep the layers organized.
The way it is now in tvpaint 10, it is still very easy to loose track of all your different layers.
For example: If you use the "hide layer group" function, you can't see where your frames in the layer starts and ends.
And it would be easy if you could select multiple layers and say "make group", and give the group a name. Using colors to make a group is not sufficient in my opinion.

[Svengali]

First Impression: TVPaint 10 feels very solid after a 1/2 hour of use - the refinements and enhancements of the interface are very welcome. The brush history is wonderful. I like the sleek, top-down-convertible-mode of the light box!

At the same time I'm having a few questions for the TVPaint team AND/OR seeking advice from any Beta Testers who have been living and working in the new environment for a while:

I feel rather uncomfortable and disoriented as I stumble around exploring this virgin install of TVPaint 10.

My 9.5 working environment has become extremely customized: fifteen or twenty custom panels and dozens of custom buttons that call to George scripts of various kinds. Also, many, many custom brushes. My config.ini file also contains lots and lots of custom parameters, flags etc that service the scripts.

1. Would it be unwise (or worse, damaging) to bring my custom panels (or panels of others) AND the CONFIG.INI file directly over into TVP 10? I'm game to simply try it but worry a bit that I will mess things up... though surely a reinstall could solve any problems. I guess what I am asking is: Would I be better off migrating all of my customized tools and buttons by manually copying over each of the panels, buttons and scripts and testing them one at a time?

2. Same question more or less concerning the shortcut key list. Almost all of my keys have been reassigned, some that just use standard TVPaint shortcut commands but many others which call my own custom buttons stored in various custom panels. If I copy my shortcut key configuration file over from TVP 9.5 into TVP 10... will there be any damaging consequences beyond having a number of key shortcuts that just might not work?

3. Finally, the obvious question about George Scripting. I'm guessing there will be more than a few OLD George scripts that won't work requiring rewrites and updating. Is that the case? I'm also curious about NEW GEORGE COMMANDS and their SYNTAX that will be added to take advantage of the new functionality and features in TVP 10.

I would like to request a copy of a file containing those new commands and syntax (if one exists yet) or will the WIKI be updated?

Thanks, TVPaint Team, for a wonderful update... Svengali

[idragosani]

Svengali, I asked the same question this morning, it was recommended to me to manually export and import keybindings, custom panels, etc from TVP 9.5 rather than just copy the config directory directly.

[Sewie]

I imagined layer groups like in Photoshop, where you can put layers in folders which you can fold open and close to keep the layers organized.
The way it is now in tvpaint 10, it is still very easy to loose track of all your different layers.
For example: If you use the "hide layer group" function, you can't see where your frames in the layer starts and ends.
And it would be easy if you could select multiple layers and say "make group", and give the group a name. Using colors to make a group is not sufficient in my opinion.

I have to admit; that's what I thought of, and hoped for, when I read that TVPaint 10 had expanded it's grouping functions and options. I do hope that someday the TVPaint team will get to a point where creating groups and working with them will be as easy as just sliding them into a folder so that they are linked no matter what.

Would it be possible as an extra feature to link grouped layers? So that when you slide one layer in the timeline, or when you move drawings on the stage, the other layers within the group move along with it?

[BenEcosse]

I have to admit; that's what I thought of, and hoped for, when I read that TVPaint 10 had expanded it's grouping functions and options. I do hope that someday the TVPaint team will get to a point where creating groups and working with them will be as easy as just sliding them into a folder so that they are linked no matter what.

And when you use the Keyframer to move a group of layers it seems you can only preview the layer you have selected rather than seeing the whole group being transformed. You only seem to see all the layers in the group transformed once you 'Apply FX Stack'. Maybe I'm missing something?

And it would be easy if you could select multiple layers and say "make group", and give the group a name. Using colors to make a group is not sufficient in my opinion.

if you hold down CTRL when you drag a grouped layer in the timeline the other layers in that group follow.

[BenEcosse]

The new 'Export Footage' panel is so much better now. Really well organised and easy to use.

[Elodie]

And it would be easy if you could select multiple layers and say "make group", and give the group a name. Using colors to make a group is not sufficient in my opinion.

That's already the case : if you select several layers and click on one color folder icon > choose a color in the pop-up menu > all the selected layers will be put into the group.
You can also rename the group in that same pop-up menu, with the function "Edit".

Folders have a big disadvantage : imagine you have 2 layers in the group A, 2 layers in the group B and then, you want to add above 2 other layers, which should be put into group A, but have to be above the layers from group B. With folders, you would have to create 3 folders. With groups, you can use only 2 folders and organize them in any order you want.

Thanks for the information about moving layer groups.
I think I will use this function.
But I still think this is a very complex way for doing something that should be very easy.

Yes, you're right, there is something to improve here

The new 'Export Footage' panel is so much better now. Really well organised and easy to use.

Thank you Ben =)

[Joost]

That's already the case : if you select several layers and click on one color folder icon > choose a color in the pop-up menu > all the selected layers will be put into the group.
You can also rename the group in that same pop-up menu, with the function "Edit".

In my opinion this isn't renaming a group but renaming a color.
And what if you need more then twelve groups?

I think it is not a good idea to make groups out of the layer colors.

[Trumpatrick]

Folders have a big disadvantage : imagine you have 2 layers in the group A, 2 layers in the group B and then, you want to add above 2 other layers, which should be put into group A, but have to be above the layers from group B. With folders, you would have to create 3 folders. With groups, you can use only 2 folders and organize them in any order you want.

I don't have tvpaint 10 yet, but I I'd like to chime in on this discussion, because the group function alone would be worth it for me to get the new version, if only it was executed the way Joost described. What I've seen from it so far doesn't look like a big advantage to me. The disadvantage you name is true, but if you've ever worked with photoshop, you would have to agree that this situation hardly occurs, at least for me. On the other hand, scrolling up and down through all your numerous layers, loosing track of them, running out of colors to keep things organized is something that happens all the time. The way the groups are done now, it just feels like a half way solution and it limits your workflow. Using colors for grouping things can be useful, but it doesn't solve the need to be able to keep things organized, it's a nice extra, if you don't mind me saying, but that's it.