TVP and Tablet PC's

[Yojimbo]

I don't recall the exact solution, but I solved this issue on my tablet. I know the latest WACOM penabled drivers are necessary.I agree you cant work without sub-pixel interpolation. Try zooming way out and draw a line and it looks horrible.

I have great calibration except at the extreme corners of the screen. My cursor meets my pen tip and the line draws exactly from there. I spent a couple of nights getting it all right but it is possible to be sure.This is on a Motion Computing tablet.

[lemec]

*beh*... I'm already in Visual C++ hacking away at one of my plugins to make a fullscreen HUD crosshair...

ah, I'm such a hack.

[lemec]

Okay, so I finished my hack and even made it make the cursor disappear whenever it's over the project and it's not a painting brush.

However, as I was developing this on the desktop workstation (and then later when I ported it to the TPC), I realized that this is really a tabletPC-only bug. I think there's something terribly wrong with the wacom Penabled driver or something to do with Windows TabletPC edition not reporting the correct information.

I know that in ArtRage the right-click is totally bodged to hell on the tabletPC, while it works great on the desktop cintiq.

[MadCow]

Hi Le mec,

Forget about using subpixel in TabletPC, as far as I know Wintab does not support screen rotation at all... you can implement sub pixel by using Microsoft Tablet PC Ink SDK as digitizer input and forget Wintab.

Vista has this built in so there is no need of a TabletPC version anymore. Microsoft is killing wintab and they dont want developer to support it on windows anymore.

Another solution is to manually specificy the current rotation and flip the wintab coordinates... but its not very user friendly.

MadCow.


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[ZigOtto]

Hi Le mec,

Forget about using subpixel in TabletPC, as far as I know Wintab does not support screen rotation at all... you can implement sub pixel by using Microsoft Tablet PC Ink SDK as digitizer input and forget Wintab.

Vista has this built in so there is no need of a TabletPC version anymore. Microsoft is killing wintab and they dont want developer to support it on windows anymore.

Another solution is to manually specificy the current rotation and flip the wintab coordinates... but its not very user friendly.

MadCow.

Hi Mad Cow,
(it's been a while... )

yes, I 've heard similar things from other sources,
about Tablet PC, their advises were :
- take a powerful model (proc.+ ram = vista ready),
and forget actual Windows tablet PC version.

[lemec]

Err.... does this mean that Hervé has to implement the ink SDK instead of wintab for subpixel to work in TVP? Or is this something that a dumb 'ol end user like me can handle?

[MrChoy]

Tablet arrived. Whoo! what a nice piece of kit

I am a little disappointed by the stylus/cursor lag though. Maybe this is some kind of Tablet OS thing as the specs of my Tablet probably exceed those of my desk top machine. Only Microsoft could be suprised when people are given a tablet and stylus and want to draw with them. The lag is slight and I will probably get used to it very quickly.

I can confirm that I get the wobbly line thing that Lemac experienced in TVP - It makes it very difficult to do tight detailed stuff. I would have put this down to the tablet OS but I tried a demo of Alias Sketchbook and it doesn't seem to have it. Infact the 'lag' is practically not there at all.

Oh well, early days, lots to learn (The handwriting recognition thing is amazing!).

[MadCow]

Err.... does this mean that Hervé has to implement the ink SDK instead of wintab for subpixel to work in TVP? Or is this something that a dumb 'ol end user like me can handle?

Yes.
I have Vista running on my tabletpc and InkSDK is builtin in many version of Vista (except Home basic and Starter I think).

Its the same is you want to open the Virtual keyboard panel, you have to develop something specific.

Regarding the technology, TabletPC are compatible with ArtPad stylus because I still have some old ones here and it works ! (generation of tablet before Intuos) this is maybe why the pressure resolution is so low.

BTW you must disable the Hold and Click to have a correct drawing feeling otherwise it will be very bad.

MadCow.

[MrChoy]

Hi MAdCow
Good tip.
One of the first things I did was to disable the click and hold an turn on the pens side button.

The inexplicable slight pen/cursor lag is what I find most irritating and bewildering considering the muscle of my tablet. Is it still there with Vista? Are there any improvements from Windows Tablet edition that would help with drawing?

[lemec]

MrChoy >> Chad Essley made a tool called tabTipTamer that helps somewhat with the lag induced by the TabletPC's tabtip.exe

I added his tool's functionality in along with making it so you could use the sideswitch as a middle-mouse button, but if you press and hold the sideswitch down, then hold the tip down, it performs a right-mouse click. It ain't perfect, but if you want to test it out, you can send me a PM.

I also suggest getting a hold of a Cintiq stylus (for the 15SX or 18SX -- NOT the 21UX) and use that, since you get an erasing function and an additional sideswitch.

MadCow >> ah, I can't seem to find the InkSDK anywhere, and it seems that I can't get a hold of Windows Vista until it comes out officially...

Not to worry, though, I think everything is bearable until then.

[Yojimbo]

When I got my tablet the first thing I noticed was that Aslias Sketchbook worked perfectly, with great speed, calibration and no lag. For this reason I knew the problem had to be in settings for other programs to perform the same. In the end, I used trial and error to work out the settings to get identical performance in TVP as I had in Alias sketchbook. Alias proved the tablet could do it, so I just had to find what to turn on and what to turn off to make it so that TVP could do as well.

[lemec]

Agreed. Alias Sketchbook works magnificently well on my tabletPC. There are a few things I noticed about it, though -- it's a REAL CPU hog. I noticed this when I was using it in a life drawing session last thursday (and I had winamp running in the background.) I noticed that the computer got pretty toasty hot and that winamp started skipping now and then. After checking out the task manager with ASBP, I noticed how much the CPU usage climbed when I was drawing.

I also know that I can't use Skype and ASBP at the same time. Skype starts dropping out -- so no using it for quick notes...

TVPaint with the Subpixel on still seems to be very responsive though, and I can use it with Winamp running in the middle of a life drawing session with no lags or hiccups. But, yeah, the calibration is an issue, so until it's fixed, I'll be relying on ASBP for the time being for my life-drawing sessions. I can still easily bring ASBP drawings back over into TVPaint if I should choose to clean up and colour something.

[MrChoy]

Hmm. I seem not to be able to turn on subpixel. It locks up TVP. I have a core2 duo machine and a nvidia 7300 mobile graphics card. (In case anyone technical is watching)

I just bought the latest version of Artrage (It would be rude not to at £12!)
Fun but it still amazes me how much better than everything else ASBP runs on the TPC. I still prefer TVP's brushes though and am heartened by the fact that Tablet OS is mentioned in the compatibility tables.

[lemec]

MrChoy >> if your tabletPC has the screen rotated sideways or upside down, then turning on subpixel will make the stylus report the wrong position (the stylus coordinates will be spun around). TVP hasn't crashed -- but what you can do is rotate your screen orientation back to normal, and everything should be OK again. Subpixel affects all mouse coordinate positioning, not just for painting, but for clicking on user interface elements like scrollbars, checkboxes, etc.

ASBP has some very aggressive coding behind it. It takes high priority over everything else, causes Skype and Winamp to stutter and makes my computer heat up a lot. So, it really makes use of everything your computer has to offer -- but at a price!

[MrChoy]

No rotation here. I don't really like the portrait aspect.
If I go in and click sub-pixel tvp hangs and I have to ctrl alt delete to quit out. Maybe it just moved the confirmation buttons to where I couldn't see them.

I think I'd put up with the processor greed for better feedback - (I'm saying that now when I haven't had much time to play) Shame ASBP doesn't seem to be developed any more. Good opportunity for TVP to step in ?

I wonder if Vista has these same problems? - Probably as Microsoft doesn't seem to see drawing as important (The Fools!)

....Maybe I'm looking at this the wrong way. Maybe I should see this as the perfect opportunity to loosen up my drawings. Scary thought (In a nice way)