Richard Williams - Animation MasterClass animated line up

[Peter Wassink]

Being a big fan of the book, my first reaction to the animated line up, just seeing it start up, was one of excitement.
but after watching it a couple of times or even at the end of seeing it the first time, some disappointed set in.
Maybe because of the impossible high expectations (Williams is supposed to be the best there is)

My main trouble lies with the 'marching loop'

It turns out that to me it feels like all these characters are walking the same walk! The only major thing that separates them is their proportions and their outside skin, the way they are rendered. There seem to be no individual character traits in how they animated!(with the possible exception of that double bouncing fox)
What a missed opportunity to show how difference of character can be expressed through walking.
i mean...even both the stick figure and the little 'UPA'-like character move super slick, completely countering their design andehat they stand for?!
I think it was a mistake to make them all walk on singles. And to also have them all walk the same speed 'conveyor belt' is what is causing this.

high trees catch lots of wind
...in the end ... off course....the piece is extremely craftfully exercised.

[idragosani]

Sorry.
Can the administrator please remove me from this forum, because I'm very 'not required and unwanted'.
And I agree, my comments were very 'Not justified or deserved; unwarranted: uncalled-for rude'
(isn't rudeness always uncalled for? I mean, if it's called fo, is it still rudeness then? )
I', sorry, I'm Dutch, I can't help myself. It's the environment, the genes.

Please reject me.
I deserve such a treatment.

Certainly don't leave! It wasn't *that* rude!

[idragosani]

Being a big fan of the book, my first reaction to the animated line up, just seeing it start up, was one of excitement.
but after watching it a couple of times or even at the end of seeing it the first time, some disappointed set in.
Maybe because of the impossible high expectations (Williams is supposed to be the best there is)

My main trouble lies with the 'marching loop'

It turns out that to me it feels like all these characters are walking the same walk! The only major thing that separates them is their proportions and their outside skin, the way they are rendered. There seem to be no individual character traits in how they animated!(with the possible exception of that double bouncing fox)
What a missed opportunity to show how difference of character can be expressed through walking.
i mean...even both the stick figure and the little 'UPA'-like character move super slick, completely countering their design andehat they stand for?!
I think it was a mistake to make them all walk on singles. And to also have them all walk the same speed 'conveyor belt' is what is causing this.

high trees catch lots of wind
...in the end ... off course....the piece is extremely craftfully exercised.

It is kinda interesting that at first everyone seems to have an individual walk -- watch the first woman as she gets in line, she has a kind of slinky walk but then straightens up and marches in line with the rabbit and duck. I guess when they are crowded together like that you wouldn't have much choice. I should be happy to be able to animate a walk at least half as good as one of those characters

There's a color version available directly on the website (not youtube) that David linked to.

[idragosani]

Oh, that one.

Hey Paul when are you going to write a book? It'd be great to have all of your words of wisdom in one place!

[Paul Fierlinger]

Some are words of experience and other ones might be just good guesses, but wisdom I would leave alone until I get a little older. Yet I do know that I have something to say to cover what formula books such as the one in discussion here leave out.

I can still draw and produce, thus earn my keep with what I know how to do better than anything else I have tried, so I think I might just stick to that for at least one more feature film... the time to write is when the hand starts shaking and the eyes become too weak to stare through them all day and half the night into an overabundance of monitors.

I don't believe that books of this nature should be written from a collection of notes and posts on forums. I'm sure it must be done methodically and responsibly and that's an awful lot of work too. There too many books written like magazine articles so I wouldn't want to produce just another cheat of that nature. Writing a book must be taken very seriously and I don't think I feel like getting into that right now -- maybe in 3 or 4 years though.

[idragosani]

Yet I do know that I have something to say to cover what formula books such as the one in discussion here leave out.

Those are exactly the words of wisdom I think many would find much inspiration from.

[Paul Fierlinger]

See, but formula books have mass appeal and sell well, whereas the other kind appeals to a much smaller community of elitists.

Note: there are several ways of defining elitism and this is the one I subscribe to:
* Rigorous study of, or great accomplishment within, a particular field of study
* A long track record of competence in a demanding field
* An extensive history of dedication and effort in service to a specific discipline (e.g., medicine or arts)
* A high degree of accomplishment, training or wisdom within a given field

Elitists from any field are people I enjoy watching and listening to, whereas formula experts bore me. I don't know if I am yet up to writing a book from an elitist's perspective. It would have to be done exceptionally well to convince a publisher to spend any money on it. I haven't found that kind of self confidence in myself yet and this little exchange has helped me sort out my thoughts for my next meeting (next Tuesday) with my producers. I want to wait a bit more before I'll give the writing of a book more thought.

[Peter Wassink]

Elitists from any field are people I enjoy watching and listening to, whereas formula experts bore me.

Do you then consider Richard Williams a formula expert?
Given your definition of elite, i would reckon him to be an ultimate elite animator.

but ....maybe he is an elite formula expert!
either way he should be enjoyable for you to listen to him

[Paul Fierlinger]

Do you then consider Richard Williams a formula expert?

I certainly do -- he's the quintessential, anything worth doing is worth overdoing, formula expert.

Given your definition of elite, i would reckon him to be an ultimate elite animator.

I have diminished respect for him after he spent 25 years and millions and millions of other people's and his own money to work on a feature film he never completed. The group walk cycle you so well described is the result of his ultimate walk cycle formula -- you point to it yourself; they all have the same walk.

but ....maybe he is an elite formula expert!

You're not allowed to be both; one or the other.

either way he should be enjoyable for you to listen to him

They say that about him; I've never been to one of his lectures. I see him as an obsessive perfectionist who understands only the concept of following rules to become perfect at something. He hired all the old Disney elitists to teach him and his crew how they do it, but he followed only their formula and paid no attention to their individualism. If one guy told him you can't listen to music when you animate, he passed this rule to everyone else. NEVER LISTEN TO MUSIC!!!!WHEN!!!YOU!!!WORK!!!!!

[hisko]

If one guy told him you can't listen to music when you animate, he passed this rule to everyone else. NEVER LISTEN TO MUSIC!!!!WHEN!!!YOU!!!WORK!!!!!

Hahaha, that's the funniest part of his book.
If I wouldn't be allowed to listen to Shostakovich, Frank Zappa, Krysztof Komeda, Edu Lobo, Elis Regina, Bartok, Prince, Ligeti, Penderecki, Takemitsu, Miles Davis, Herbie Hancock, les Baxter, Steely Dan, Beatles, Bach, Gong, Morricone, Bernard Hermann, Dvorak, Strawinsky, Rimsky-Korsakoff, Janacek, Lalo Schifrin, John Mclaughlin, James Brown, and a million other artists all day while drawing, I'd rather be a plumber.

Otherwise it's a very good book, I think.

[Paul Fierlinger]

Otherwise it's a very good book, I think.

Aahhh... another orthodoxy in the making...
Listen up Everyone! Hisko has lost his way! Everyone else, march in lockstep and do your own thing!

[hisko]

Hisko has lost his way! Everyone else, march in lockstep and do your own thing!

Everyone, follow the Fierlinger-doctrine and do your own thing!!!

[Paul Fierlinger]

That's it! That's the perfect doctrine. It's the doctrine called Individuism (not a misspelling; this is a phrase the great Carl Jung coined).

[masterchief]

interesting group walk cycle.... one problem!

first two characters have shortest gate... they are chopping there steps as compared to the much taller characters that are walking full strides and everyone is covering same space... taller characters should be chopping their steps and shorter ones should be FULL stride to keep up, even overreaching.... does not look believable to me IMHO. stickman should be walking past the first two characters!

comes from trying to teach military drill to group of 80 navy recruits not knowing left foot from the right foot... LOL

regards,
William

[idragosani]

interesting group walk cycle.... one problem!

first two characters have shortest gate... they are chopping there steps as compared to the much taller characters that are walking full strides and everyone is covering same space... taller characters should be chopping their steps and shorter ones should be FULL stride to keep up, even overreaching.... does not look believable to me IMHO. stickman should be walking past the first two characters!

comes from trying to teach military drill to group of 80 navy recruits not knowing left foot from the right foot... LOL

I agree it does look awkward, especially since each character, when they enter, has a more individual walk. If you look at the cover of the book also, it doesn't look like they are all quite in step, and looks more like people walking in a line.